This story originally appeared on WHQR.

At the close of last week’s city council meeting, Councilman Luke Waddell raised concerns that had been brought to him by Wilmington Fire Department (WFD) and Wilmington Police Department (WPD) employees.

“I met with a group of rank-and-file members of the Wilmington Fire Department and the Wilmington Police Department. They requested to meet to discuss some grievances that they had, and we had a long but professional and productive meeting. What I took away from it is they have some legitimate concerns that should be listened to. Top line issues were transparent pay and promotional structure,” Waddell said.

In an email, Waddell confirmed to WHQR that these were veteran members, the majority of whom had served for over a decade.

During the council meeting, Waddell acknowledged he was approaching the issues as a layperson, but said he thought these policies were “not probably the proper way” to retain talented employees. He also noted concerns with mandatory overtime without commensurate compensation and other pay-related issues

He also said he personally took issue with how, in his understanding, how WPD’s promotion policy currently works.

“It is also my understanding that for the Wilmington Police Department, when you’re seeking a promotion, you’re required to go before a promotional board. That board is made up of three community leaders and two police professionals. So putting the futures of our men and women in the police department into the hands of individuals who really don’t have any idea how that job is done, I believe that process has been around since 2020 — that’s something I took some significant issue with,” Waddell said.

In response to a request for comment, Waddell followed up on this concern, writing in part, “I was informed that the WPD’s promotional board includes ‘community leaders’ lacking any policing experience, some of whom I was told have openly supported initiatives to defund the police. As an elected representative of the City of Wilmington, I requested a list of these community leaders from the City Manager, but was informed that this information is considered confidential and could not be disclosed. This response raises significant concerns for several reasons, which I intend to address in the near future.”

Waddell noted the city has struggled with recruiting and retaining in both departments — and that it was “rare that you find both organizations coming together and discussing grievances.”

He called for the creation of a committee with council members, the head of human resources, and a representative of City Manager Tony Caudle’s office.

City and departments’ response

According to a city spokesperson, community members have played various roles in interview committees for city employees for many years — although the spokesperson could not comment directly on WPD’s specific promotion committee.

The city is not currently working to establish a committee, but staff are in the process of reviewing compensation for city employees — including police officers and firefighters — compared to benchmark and neighboring municipalities.

WPD declined to comment on the concerns raised by Waddell, but confirmed it does use a promotion board that includes community members.

“We do not have any comment regarding discussions with council or regarding pay and benefits. We do currently administer a promotion board made up in part of sworn law enforcement officers from across the state and in part made up of community members who are not law enforcement officers and are citizens of Wilmington,” a spokesperson said.

WPD did not offer additional information about its promotional policy, but according to several current and former law enforcement officers familiar with the department, a board with both sworn officers and community members was first used around 2017 for the deputy chief position. In 2020, WPD reportedly expanded the use of this board for promotions to the ranks of lieutenant and captain, as part of the department’s broader efforts to improve its relationship with the community following the murder of George Floyd and the firing of three WPD officers for inappropriate and racist comments (Chief Donny Williams mentioned including citizens in the hiring process briefly during a June 24, 2020 press conference)

According to a WFD spokesperson, the fire department supported the “city’s efforts to continuously review our compensation and benefits plans in order to remain competitive. This is critical to us being able to recruit and retain the best in our field,” as well as recent salary adjustments merit pay, and “the infusion of $120,000 to reduce pay compression among company officers.”

Fire Department Chief Steve Mason added, “I have not heard anything further regarding the formation of the committee,” to explore improving pay and benefits as part of efforts to recruit and retain firefighters. “We definitely support that effort and would love to have representation on the group/committee.”

Pushback from Councilman Kevin Spears

During last week’s meeting, councilman Kevin Spears disagreed with Waddell’s concerns about the WPD promotion committee.

“The Wilmington Police Department, they serve the citizens — so the citizens should have a fair opportunity to select or give their input on who helps to serve the community,” Spears said. “There doesn’t need to be anything that’s divisive about that.”

Spears also noted that, while he had been recently criticized over the city’s recent budget by the “Police Officers for a Safer Wilmington” Facebook group, officers felt comfortable sitting down one-on-one with Waddell.

“I believe if anyone reaches out to you, as it relates to the Wilmington Police Department, [it’s] because they see you publicly criticize the Wilmington Police Department and criticize the chief – openly,” Spears said.

The context for that comparison came from a tense exchange Spears had with WPD Captain Thom Tilmon earlier in the meeting.

After pulling an item relating to the police officers serving the Wilmington Housing Authority, Spears asked Tilmon some boilerplate questions before pivoting to a different concern.

He asked Tilmon if he was familiar with the Police Officers for a Safer Wilmington Facebook group. Tilmon confirmed that while he was no longer a member, he had been part of the group years earlier. Tilmon said the group was founded as part of efforts to push city council to improve compensation for police officers since, at the time in 2013, WPD employees had gone without a raise for four years in the wake of the 2008-2009 financial collapse.

Spears noted that the Facebook page’s recent criticism of comments he and Mayor Bill Saffo had made related to the budget. The page quoted Saffo saying he felt the city had made significant strides in improving pay, and Spears as saying that he didn’t feel employees would leave jobs over a difference of one or two dollars an hour in pay. Spears acknowledged he made those comments — but also said he had been “adamant about showing support for the Wilmington Police Department.”

Spears also noted that, in the comments, someone using a pseudonym account had attacked his family. While Spears didn’t go into specifics, the post in question insulted Spears’ son and said “Kevin Spears needs to be fired immediately,” followed by a clown emoji.

Tilmon responded, “I’m not hiding behind any fake names, and I’m kind of angry at that insinuation.”

The Facebook page’s moderators later posted about the exchange, denying Spears’ additional claim that he had been blocked from commenting. While the moderators did not appear to apologize to Spears directly, they did later post decrying “inflammatory or derogatory” comments, and noted they would be moderating posts more strictly:

As a reminder this page was created specifically to bring to light serious compensation issues. This page is not intended to single out any individuals. We encourage any dialogue be it from Officers, citizens, or council members. We will not tolerate any inflammatory or derogatory statements. That only takes away from the entire purpose of this page. Any statements we have made where individuals in city council have been named were only for direct quotes. They are not intended to be an attack on anyone. We have elected to monitor comments more closely and remove any that be deemed as such. You are welcome to send us private messages in you have any more questions of concerns.

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